Updated February 21, 2025 at 11:45 AM ET
A month after Latvia hosted a major multinational NATO operation on the alliance's eastern flank, the country's former prime minister, Krisjanis Karins, spoke to Morning Edition about new signals from the White House suggesting a potentially dramatic shift in the Trump administration's posture toward Russia.
Describing Trump's comments following the contentious Munich Security Conference as "a very serious concern for peace in the world," Karins also sees the value of prodding Europe toward increased military spending in line with their NATO obligations. However, he warns that as a small nation under threat from a larger power, Latvia "cannot exist without multilateralism, without democracies banding together to stand up against the countries that are threatening all of us."
Karins concedes that Trump is justified in feeling that Europe has been freeloading on U.S. security. But he questions the administration's tactics of excluding Europe from the initial negotiations and the victim-blaming being directed at Ukraine. Karins sees the potential for far reaching consequences if the U.S. is seen by Russia and China as a weak ally, which he feels could impact Europe and beyond.
Interview highlights, edited for length and clarity:
Michel Martin: You know our colleague, Greg Myre, just summed up comments by President Trump and other positions taken by the U.S. that look like a tilt toward Russia and away from Ukraine in the past week. What do you make of it?
Krisjanis Karins: Well, this is actually a very serious concern for peace in the world, certainly for Europe and certainly for a country like Latvia. We are a NATO member. We're a member of the European Union. We invest in our defense. We're at three and a half percent of GDP right now. Next year, the government's going to go up to four. I think it'll go even further, up to five eventually.
We participated when the U.S. asked for military action in Afghanistan and Iraq. Our soldiers have fought and died alongside American soldiers, and now we're listening to the U.S. president, sort of casting doubt on this entire structure. And the difficulties, of course, is that Europe as a continent, is nowhere near ready to replace the U.S., say overnight, in terms of securing NATO's defenses in Europe.
I agree with President Trump that Europe needs to pull its weight. Europe needs to invest in its defense. I fully agree with this. This is a message that really goes back 14 years to President Obama. In the east of Europe, in Latvia and the Baltic countries in Poland, we heeded this message. We have invested in our defense. We are up, you know, up to snuff, shall we say, in terms of what we need to do, but the rest of Europe, the larger parts of Europe, the big countries, like Germany, France, the UK, Italy, Spain, these countries are, unfortunately, not there. And we need them to follow our example so that the US could pivot more to Asia, to the Pacific. Europe can and should do it.
Martin: Do you think that this is a tactic, a negotiating tactic, to get Europe to boost its defense spending? Or do you think there's something else behind it?
Karins: I would be the happiest person in the world, if this were a tactic, and certainly whatever Trump's ultimate goal is, he is having the effect that is needed, that is rattling, shall we say, some of the more complacent European leaders into action.
This is very, very good news. What is unclear to me is, if this is a tactic, what is the purpose of actually saying complete falsehoods? Saying that democratically elected Zelensky is a dictator, but not saying that non-democratically elected Putin is not. So the tactic that sort of makes sense on one part, but it doesn't make sense. Why is the U.S. president saying the things that he's saying?
Martin: What do you see at stake for countries like Latvia?
Karins: Very simply, our freedom and our independence. We are a country of under 2 million people. That's a small country. Next to us is an aggressive Russia. And they have occupied our country. They have tortured, they have deported, they have molested our citizens. We have experienced everything that Ukraine is experiencing now.
We exist because of the world order that says the rule of law is what guides everything, not the rule of force. So we cannot exist without multilateralism, without democracies banding together to stand up against the countries that are threatening all of us. There's an axis. You can see it. It's Russia, China, Iran and North Korea. Europe is interested in standing up against this, the U.S. is interested in standing up against this. We both need to stand together. And yes, I agree. Europe needs to invest in its defense and be able to take over the role in Europe from the U.S. within the NATO framework, all the time, working with the U.S.
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